Could You Handle a Startup School? | A Conversation with Grainne O'Reilly

Have you ever been involved in a start up school? It is not for the faint hearted and my guest today seems to have a strong stomach for it. Stay tuned if you want to learn how to navigate and celebrate everything involved with start ups. Hey everyone, I'm Shane Leaning, welcome to Global Ed Leaders, the chat topping leadership podcast for international schools. I'm an organisational coach and in this show I get

to know the teachers, leaders and innovators making a difference in education across the world. Before we jump into the conversation today, I'm delighted that this episode is supported by the International Curriculum Association. Stay tuned to learn more. So my guest today is Grania O'Reilly. Grania has been a principal for many years across

many different countries including the US, Korea, even China where I'm based. And she seems to have a bit of a thing for start up schools, that's brand new international schools. Now with this experience comes a whole host of strategies that have worked for Grania and her team over the years and if you speak to many people who have worked in her schools you hear great reviews. And I've also been involved in some start ups myself and know how challenging, frustrating they can be but also places of great energy and growth.

So let's jump straight into the conversation with Grania to learn a little more about how to navigate start ups. To be honest, it isn't just about leading in a start up that's different. Everything is different in a start up. When you step into leadership, you step into a situation where there are going to be a lot of unknowns, but they are known unknowns. You expect them,

you know that there will be people hopefully who will be able to help you. Ideally you will be very open about asking for help. I mean I do think the best leaders are always open to other people's ideas and always open to asking other people, how did you do this? Has this happened to you? But when you go into a start up it's not known unknowns,

it's unknown unknowns. And so it really puts you in a state, it's a bit like being on call all the time because you never know quite what it is you're going to have to deal with next. And I say that that's the same for everyone. When you take up your first headship or perhaps you take up leading a section in a school or becoming a deputy head or you're the head of a department or something of that nature, you start to develop this very proprietorial feel about your team, your department, your resources, all of those sorts of things. The interesting thing is that in a start up, my experience has been time and

time again that every single member of your team develops a proprietorial interest in school and its success. Everybody, whether that's your marketing team, whether it's the people in your nursery department, whether it's the people who are going for Cambridge accreditation, whether it's the caretaker, whether it's your cleaning crew, everybody really feels the excitement and the magic of start up. And I think for leaders within it, harnessing that magic and including everyone and really giving them permission to take ownership and to feel proprietorial is one of the great keys to success. You know, I look back at many of my teams and I look at the extraordinary stable of heads that have come out of those start up teams. Now, part of that may be that the sort of person who

applies for a start up is likely to be a self-starter, likely to be confident, likely to be comfortable with risk. And also those who do international start ups, you know, they're the people who have the get up and go to get up and go off and do those things. So of course, that's the caliber of people who will be involved in a start up. But certainly the success that I have seen people go on to and enjoy has been really quite extraordinary. And I don't have any statistics around it. And actually, it would be a

fascinating piece of research, because I can't believe that that many leaders, either in schools of their own or educational organizations of their own, I can't believe that there isn't a direct link between their experiences in a successful startup. I love how you phrase that. And it's interesting that you talked about being in a startup, being energizing, and certainly is for many people I've worked with. But I also think it's also a bit terrifying. When you talk about unknown, unknowns, as a leader, you

go, well, how do you prepare for an unknown, unknown? Like what do you do? Like, is there a way you can be ready to deal with that, do you think? Well, after you've done a few, you certainly are, because there is a pattern. There really

is a pattern. But also, I think most people who go into, well, I would hope, I say this from the heart, I would sincerely hope that anybody who goes into leadership, first of all, is capable of it. I know that can sound like a political statement, but we have all met those people and seen the damage they do. So I would hope that everybody who goes into leadership is capable of it. But also, I would hope that they go into it to do the

absolute best they can, not only for themselves, but for everybody around them. Fundamentally, of course, for the children, that's the business we're in, children and families. But you really can't do that successfully, unless you are doing the absolute best for that team who are around you. You often see these means or quotes, and I saw one the other day and it said, the estimate or something of your culture is not the amount of PD you do with your staff, it's the feeling they get on a Sunday evening.

And if you've got that awful feeling on a Sunday evening, you start to feel unwell, you think, oh my God, can I do another week? Is there any way I could get out of doing such and such this week, or I've got to deal with this, that and the other, I'm overwhelmed. I don't know if I can do it. Then that is an environment in which you are a real team and that you are supported and that the energy and the energizing is positive. Because there's a difference between pressure, because startups are huge

pressure, huge pressure. You've got to be somebody who really quite enjoys that gallop. It's not a canter by any means. And very occasionally, if you get to trot and have a cup of coffee at the same time, you are inordinately grateful. It really is a

hell for leather gallop most of the time. But there's a difference between the pressure of the gallop. Someone who loves speed isn't stressed by that. Now stress is very, very different. Stress is not knowing what to do with the unknown

unknowns and being terrified that there's going to be another one that they won't know how to cope with around the next corner. And in all honesty, there's a lot of mystique around startups and oh my goodness, you know, it's this amazing experience and everything. Fundamentally, the vast majority of it is just common sense and hard work. Knowing what it is you want to create, developing the right group of people around you who are going to help you to create that, supporting them so that they feel that they can do it, and having really good communication, always letting people know it's a bit like a really good lesson in the classroom. You tie it first of all to what they already know, you tell them

what you're going to do, what the aim is, what the outcome is going to be, why we're learning it, you tell them how we're going to do it, we do it, and then you tell them what they've done and how that's going to tie in to the next part of learning. And it's exactly the same with the startup. You over-communicate really clearly at every level. You have to communicate very well above you, whether they're investors, whether they're owners, it might be a board, you know, it depends whether it's profit or non-profit. But in many ways, none of that

matters. They're all human beings whose jobs are also on the line or whose profits are on the line or whose shareholders will be asking them, you know, how is the plan going, why are we not in profit yet, whatever. You've then got to manage across and out and you then have to manage those people who are joining you and who you will be trying to encourage and you will be trying to lift up. So it's a bit like sort of 360. And if you are under-promising and

over-delivering, you know, people, I think, overuse that phrase and often misuse that phrase. But there is so much upselling and over-selling and over-confidence and making promises that quite frankly, nobody is going to be able to keep. In the whole of the entrepreneurial world, of course, in the whole world of startup, including schools, if you under-promise, you've got to be very, very confident, you've got to be very clear and you do need to make big statements. But under-promise and over-deliver every single time. And it's amazing how that builds really deep confidence. And

once you have gained people's trust and confidence, it's amazing the risks you can take. Because generally speaking, they feel energised and they feel, you know what, this might be a bit risky, you know, it might be a bit scary, but oh my goodness, I think the fruits of this are going to be incredible. And of course, when a startup works really well, the fruits of it are just amazing. The joy of seeing children come to you. I had a young man who graduated just this summer. He came to me

in the first year, the last school that I was in, in China. He was with us for eight years. He didn't speak one single word of English when he came. He hated school, had had a troubled earlier experience with education, wasn't happy with himself, wasn't happy with his family, you name it, a very, very tough situation.

And he's just graduated and he's going to a really outstanding university, of course, in an English-speaking country, you know, fantastic A-level results. More importantly, a really wonderful young man who's going to make a difference to the world. And when you see something like that happen from a genesis of three children, I opened that school with three children and then you see somebody like him, I just don't think there's anything that can compare with that feeling. There's huge professional growth potential, right? That's kind of like what

you get from a startup school, but it's interesting. I'm almost thinking with what you're saying, it sounds like so much is important about the vision and moving forward with a vision of where you want the school to go. And yet, the vision is not necessarily a big promise because we know that with a startup school, things are going to change. Also with a startup school, you're going to fail many times at different areas. And it's almost making me think of some

brilliant work by Amy Edmondson about psychological safety and failing well in a school. I imagine you want to develop a culture where you are able to fail well. You must have had many times where things have just not happened. I mean, it's a startup. That's the nature of it, right?

Absolutely. In fact, my greatest learning experiences without a doubt have all been about failure. Some of them have actually been startups that have not been able to start at the very last minute. And I remember one of our schools, it was when I was with British schools of America and we even had children on the books and we had flown in our whole staff. It was to do with

structural engineering. We found out we weren't going to be able to use the premises. The licensing laws in that city are particularly strong, particularly strong in that state. And there were no other buildings that would have been available and appropriate and would have passed licensing. And one of the things that we always did with British schools

of America was we always started with younger children and then grew through to the older grades. So not being able to have the younger children in school was completely the opposite direction from the company model. And learning from those sorts of things is absolutely fascinating because there's nothing else to do but reflect. You can't paper over it.

You can't put a sticking plaster on it. You can't pretend that actually that didn't happen. It is a monumental failure and just so brilliant in terms of learning, not just what could we make sure to do the next time so that that doesn't happen again. Of course, you want to take those lessons away. But also, what do you learn about yourself when you

have failed? Because when you think about it, the vast majority of us in education, we're all successes. We got on OK at school. We didn't end up delinquent. You know, whatever our useful indiscretions may

have been. And I'm just so grateful that social media was not around when I was young. And there is no photographic evidence. But to be serious, we don't often fail at things, especially not monumentally. And so when you start doing startup, you really do

have to learn to eat humble pie. You've got to learn to be accountable and really accountable. When you're the one who may have to say to somebody, you will not have a job for September, or somebody who's already on your team, and you have to go to them, and you have to disband the team and you have to let them go. I mean, that's without doubt, one of the worst things you ever have to do as a head. But of

course, that happens all the time in startup. Yes. And you learn so much from dealing with that from being the failure, you know, and being part of the wider failure and the wider learning. And also, I hope it makes one more gracious in dealing with other people's failures. I mean, certainly, in

many of my schools, we were very clear, you know, this sounds a bit corny, but FAIL, fail, means first attempt in learning. You know, that's nothing new. Lots of people use that. But we really want to show that not just to our children, we're all very good at encouraging the children to overcome their failures. We're very good at that. My

goodness, I just look at the younger teachers coming through now, I look at people in their 20s and 30s. And so often, I just stand back in amazement, and not just their energy and their ideas and their creativity. It's not just that, but it's the grace that they have to allow children to be who they are, and to genuinely allow them to learn through failure in a way that I would say, in all honesty, that many people of my generation never really managed to do. And they always impress me, not only in how they allow children to learn through their failures, but how they allow themselves to, and will be, I hope, I mean, certainly, in my experience, so many of them will be really open and honest, and they will use that phrase, they'll use that phrase, oh, I own it, you know, I did that. To somebody my age, you know, that's a

very new phrase. And it's got such power. So if someone comes to me, I had an incredible member of staff. She was the IB coordinator in my last school. And we'd already

broken up from school, and she called me. And she said, Okay, I just want to go over all the things that I didn't do very well this year. And I'd like you to give me some pointers for how I can do them better next year. I thought to myself, you know, when I was her age, I would have well, first and foremost, I'd never have had that relationship with the head of the school with the executive principal, I would never have been able to call him or her up. But secondly, I

would never have had the courage to admit all of the things that I had done wrong, or that I hadn't really understood or put into practice properly, and be able to say, Well, could you just explain that to me? And could you tell me why I got that wrong? And could you like give me an idea of, you know, the direction I could go in when we come back in August? I was flabbergasted by that. And I

do see that sort of learning, experiential learning, very humble learning, gracious learning. I see that in so many of the young professionals in schools today. And I must say, it just makes me so proud of them. It really does.

This episode is supported by the International Curriculum Association. The ICA have been around for about 30 years now championing quality, unlocking potential and improving learning in international schools. And what I really love is that right at their core is the model for improving learning. This is a model focused on the learning experience. And they have tons of great curriculum

materials, PD resources, and even an accreditation pathway for schools just like yours. If you're interested, head over to internationalcurriculum.com. You said at the very beginning of our conversation, to lead a startup, you need to think about your team and lean on your team a lot. And it sounds like that's

probably where some of this is developed with you, you've had to empower your team and lean on your team and trust your team. Because during the startup, you can't just do it alone. There's just too many things to do. If I were to name the stars of startup, I did my first startup with British School of Houston 25 years ago. I'm hoping to go and visit them soon,

which will be lovely. If I were to mention the names, and I know the names of every single star that I have worked with, literally, we would still be talking this time next week. Most of them have remained in international education, which is interesting. One or two went back to the UK and our heads there. And in fact, I went to visit one

Emma Howarth. I went to visit her in her school in the UK in the summer. But I look at the stars, this incredible group of people who are now leading schools all over the international world. And quite frankly, none of the schools that I started would have existed without them. I mean,

it really is as simple as that. It's never about one person. It can never be about one person. It really is about that whole team. And in many

of the schools, I couldn't get rid of them. You know, in lots of international schools, we have the problem with churn rate, you know, with that terrible turnover of staff. And in many startups that I've done, they've actually become really established members of staff. And I've sort of had to give them a bit of a prod, because you do have to move on. And you do have to get other

experiences, you know, to develop yourself, because opportunities for hierarchical development will not always be available in just one school. So it's always about that team, always about the team. Thank you, Corny. I wonder if we could take a little step back then think about that startup.

Now, I know there's going to be a lot of people listening who are in startups and at the time of release, we're around winter Christmas time. So people have been into the year. And I know there's many startups, because I've got a bit of data here from the ISC research. And, you know, back in the year 2000, around the world, there were 2,500 schools. And 2024, there are 14,000

international schools around the world, just huge growth. We've now got 6.9 million students in our schools around the world, 650,000 staff. It's incredible. So we know there's still schools

opening a lot. A lot of people are going to be in new startups. I wonder if you started to notice a pattern throughout the year of that kind of feeling that's happening. I know you've mentioned to me before in a previous chat, this idea of a post Christmas dip. So maybe we can jump in on

that to help people and what's coming to them very soon. Well, first of all, if anyone's listening, who's in a startup, or if it's your first international job, because, you know, that is a big step in life, you know, you're moving country, you're moving your job, you know, you're dealing with a lot. First of all, I just want to say really well done, really, really well done. And if no one else has said well done to you, I'm saying it to you now, and I mean it from the bottom of my heart, you will have been through so much seen and unseen things that people may not have given you credit for. So I

really do want to say well done. I also want to mention the pattern. And this is as true for startups, of course, as it is for people, as I said, for whom this is their first year in the international world, whatever your position may be. The first few weeks up until about the end of October, they are like nothing else you'll ever experience because you are constantly being bombarded with information, you're thinking on your feet, you rarely have time for slow thinking time, you're expected to put things into place immediately, you don't have a lot of time for reflection. Most schools

around the world do have a break sometime between the end of August and Christmas. I know, you know, around the world, we all have different patterns to our school terms. But you know, most people do get a bit of a break, a midterm or whatever it is called between the beginning of the school year and Christmas. And for most people, that is the time when you exhale, you know, your tongue comes down from the roof of your mouth and your shoulders finally come down, you know, and lots of people use that time maybe to travel to broaden their experience, or just to hole up in bed for a few days because they're exhausted. So I hope people have all had that

little bit of a break midway through. But then of course, you're galloping to Christmas, you know, you've got reports to write probably. And again, if this is a startup, there isn't even a report performer, you know, you are designing everything as you go. You've probably got end of term performances, you might have concerts, all sorts of things that you're dealing with. Now the

interesting thing is that schools very often petition their staff just before Christmas, or just after they come back from Christmas or winter holiday, whatever you prefer to call it. That's a very difficult time to be petitioning staff to make those decisions about staying on or signing another year's contract or another two years contract, because there's a pattern. In that first term, you have that Pell Mail at the beginning, you then go through a period of intense stress to try and get everything done. And you leave at Christmas, it's a bit like you leave to go on honeymoon. It's

like a honeymoon period. You think, wow, we survived the first term, we've sent those children home with fantastic reports. Everybody's happy. You feel really good that you've survived the first term. And the end of the term, you know,

normally you have celebration before you go and you're all excited, you're going home or you're finally getting to do that wonderful travel that you said you do, you know, if you worked overseas, and then you have to come back in January. And for so many people, look, it's a difficult time for teachers everywhere. Because teachers are already exhausted by the time they break up for Christmas, giving everybody else a Christmas at school. And then they got to organize their own Christmas. You add to that

flying, you know, maybe across the world, back to your home country or going traveling. You add in jet lag, you add in, you hadn't expected things to be as expensive as they were and you come back broke. And you come back in January. And in terms of the expatriate timeline, for all expatriates now, not just talking about schools, that is the six month dip. And for

schools, it hits around about January. And that is the time where people can make short term mistakes that can have very long term implications. They come back, they feel homesick all over again. They've got used to having their favorite foods at home, they've seen all their friends, they come back and feel lonely, they feel disconnected, summer seems so far away.

And then you've got someone saying to you from HR, are you signing up for another year? And that's when people make those mistakes and say, I can't do this. And by the time they get to May or June, they're thinking, I just can't believe that I've given up on something that really is as good as this. So I would always counsel schools in China and in Asia, schools are actually very blessed because a lot of them have time off for Chinese New Year. So that's a little bit of a

lull for teachers for international teachers. And they often come back from Chinese New Year, Lunar New Year, feeling really refreshed. But generally speaking, it's the doldrums during that time. So I would strongly encourage heads and leaders of departments and sections in a school to do another great welcome after Christmas. You know, we put all of

our effort and our engagement and our money into doing these great sessions when people come in terms of orientation and onboarding and things like that. But coming back to your teaching country in January can be really, really tough. And I would say that's the time that we need to be doing something together or in small groups or checking in on everybody by means of a professional interview. Your startup team are going to be relatively small, you know, compared to the eventual size of the school. Or if it's just

the band of new staff who came to you in September, that will be a small group. So that's the time and I believe it should be the head. I really do believe the head should be actively involved in this. And that's the time the head should be giving everybody an opportunity, you know, just maybe half an hour, three quarters of an hour over a cup of coffee in your office, just to say, where are you now? How have the last six

months been? What would you like to achieve in the next six months? Nothing heavy. Nothing. You've got

to decide now whether or not you want to stay with us for another two years. You know, none of that. But just check in that human touch to know that you understand that this may be a difficult time for them. What can I do to help you? What can

the school do to help you? And I think if everyone is just a little bit more aware of that pattern, I think there would be less people panicking. I think there would be less stress. There would be less of a feeling of being overwhelmed and dreading going back after Christmas. And

also we're going to have less teachers who do a midnight flit or who disengage. You can see that when a teacher decides to disengage. And that's so damaging. It's so damaging for their children. First and

foremost, it's very damaging to the staff around them. And it's very damaging to them. Because even if you are going to leave at the end of that year, if you've taken your foot off the accelerator, you're really not behaving in the best possible way professionally. And that won't feel good to you either. So I think having an

understanding of that pattern is very, very valuable to everybody, to the staff themselves, to the people who are supporting them and leading them, to the heads of the schools. You know, many people, many heads, many leaders go into startup and may not know much about the expatriate world. You know, there's a lot of research that's been done about the expatriate world and how people are affected over the space of the first year and beyond. So the more people know, I think the more we can all help each other.

It's so incredibly helpful, Grania, because I think awareness really helps having awareness of what staff might be going through and what you're probably going through yourself as well. But then also not making assumptions is what I hear as well, because you're saying you need to speak to them to find out what's actually happening for them and listen, and then respond to that. And that might mean putting in energy boosts within the year to help people get through that lull. And I imagine it also different startups will have such different challenges that there are going to be different lulls at different points as well. You just

don't know what's going to come up and what challenge you're going to be faced with. And as a leader, you really got to have a good way of temperature checking how your team, how your staff are. And I guess, you know, many leaders listening to this are not necessarily principals, but maybe heads of Faze or department leads. And they probably want to also think about how they can emulate that within their teams as well to keep checking in with them.

Super valuable, Granny. I wondered, as we come to the end of our chat, do you have like a tip for a leader to look after themselves? I wonder, we've talked a lot about how they might support their team. I can imagine some people are just listening to this going, I'm a bit overwhelmed at the minute.

This is a lot. I mean, it's new school or maybe a leader who's thinking I'm going into a new school next year and start up. Is there anything that you've learned over the years that you've been able to kind of foster your own resilience? Because you seem like you've developed this resilience and joy of startups. Obviously, you're

a bit addicted to it, Granny, you've done so many. So there must be there must be some secret to getting through that, right? It is addictive. It really is addictive. But

first of all, we all have dips. But if fundamentally, you are not enjoying it, you need to find a way out of it. Yeah. And that's the same for teachers. If it genuinely

is not bringing you joy, if it is causing you migraines or to start shaking on a Sunday evening, or to interfere with your relationships with your spouse or your partner or your children, whomever, to the extent that they're beginning to worry about you and they don't recognize you, it isn't the right world for you. Education is not the right world for everyone. Just as not every school is the right school for every child, not every school is the right school for every staff member. So you've got to back out graciously and with loyalty and with professionalism. But

start looking around because teachers are really extraordinary people. And there are so many other things that they can do. Don't waste your life doing a job that is not right for you because teaching and especially teaching when you're unhappy will consume you and you do have to remain healthy. You know, on your deathbed, you don't want to be talking about the lesson plans you didn't finish. You want

to be talking about the fact that you touched people's lives. And that may not be through education. That may be through some other avenue. And there are loads and loads of avenues out there. Have

confidence in yourself. You're very well educated. You've got so many talents. Do what's right for you. So first

of all, get that out of the way. But if overall, you are feeling energized by this and you are feeling that you are going in the right direction and it's the right thing for you. You really do have to find something that is important to you. I'm so lucky that I come home to a wonderful relationship with my husband. You know, we

met later in life. Each of us feels we are the love of each other's life. And we genuinely feel inordinately blessed. So for me, any time I get to come home and spend time with my Texan cowboy, it's like getting into a warm bath at the end of the day.

You know, it's everything I would hope it would be. Now, not everybody finds their solace in a relationship or would want to. So you have to find something that is for you, not about the school, not about your job, not about, you know, your continuing education and your continuing learning. All of those things are very important, but you have to think about who are you? What do you really

enjoy doing? And how can you carve out some of that special time for you? It could be sports. It could be running, it could be cooking. It could be

the theater. It could be learning foreign language. It could be reading. It could be rescuing animals. You

know, I mean, you name it, there's a whole world available to you. And even if you only carve out a little time to do that, you have to do it often. So even if you've only got, you know, three or four hours on a Saturday and maybe an hour on a Sunday, maybe an hour on a Friday evening, you know, because startup really does consume you. It's 24 seven, certainly for the first year or two. And even

thereafter, it is overwhelming. Whatever your position may be, carve out some time to either be with the people you want to be with or to do what it is that you want to do. And the final thing I would say, and this is incredibly important for younger people as they develop through their career, find people you trust that you can talk to. Do not gossip to your colleagues. Do

not speak of your school or challenges carelessly or broadly. Find people that you really trust. Join organizations that are going to guarantee you confidentiality. Find a mentor. Find

someone who perhaps has been there and done it and ask them. Pour your heart out to them. Give them the opportunity to help you and support you during those difficult times and tell the truth. Because the more open and honest we are, the better we will get.

And the vast majority of people in education are not out to get you. They are out to help you shine. So try and find those people. And I would especially say that to young women, the expectations on you are myriad and unrealistic.

And it's really important for young women and young men, of course. But I say this as an older woman, it's really important for young women to find older women to mentor them. I just love Grunius energy. I'm sure you were picking up on it as well. I really took that

leading a start-up school involves thinking about those unknowns, embracing them and being open to ask for help along the way. If you're a leader in one of those schools, one of your first aims is going to be about creating a sense of ownership and excitement. That's the success of a start-up school. You've got to remember also, I liked how we talked about there's going to be ups and downs. It's going

to be a rollercoaster. That post Christmas period can be challenging for teachers and leaders. It's important to provide support and check in with teachers regularly as you're going through. You're going to have to also not just look after your team, but look after yourself. Find

activities, find hobbies that bring joy. And you know what? Sometimes that's going to need you having trusted mentors, trusted confidants for your own personal and professional growth. Global Ed Leaders is hosted by me, Shane Leaning. Thanks to the

show editor, Pete McGill, and for original music by Guillermo Silver. Thank you so, so much for tuning in today. And as ever, if we don't speak before, I'll see you here next week. If you want to improve learning in your school, don't forget to check out the ICA at internationalcurriculum.com.