Coaching for awareness | Dr Kim Richardson & Dr Daryl Michel

Shane Leaning: Well, good morning, good afternoon, good evening, wherever in the world you are. Welcome, welcome, welcome to Coaching Done Well with me, Shane Leaning, and my good friend, Jim Thompson. Jim, how are you doing?

Jim Thompson: Well, you know, at my age, you know, we're doing pretty well, but, I live in upstate New York and we've had a very cold spring and you know, the weather, we had a frost two days ago, a frost two days ago. And then before that we had a frost and this weekend it's going to be in the eighties. So if you don't like the weather, you'll wait five minutes. It is truly discombobulated, but I hope I'm not. And I know. Our conversation is going to be anything but this, combibely, because we're blessed with two wonderful folks here today. Shayna, what's on your mind about all this?

Shane Leaning: Well, Shanghai's a bit more stable. It's nice and warm here, is lovely. But I'm just, and it's late here as well. It's just gone 8 p.m. So had a full day, but a really good day. And I'm just really glad to be having this conversation because Kim and Daryl are joining us. And listeners will know. They'll be recognizing our guest because they will go, hi, in a second, haven't we been speaking to these two before? And the answer is yes. Jim did last year on the show. I couldn't make it. So finally, finally Kim and Daryl, we get to speak at last. I'm so, so glad. don't I ⁓ hand over to you both to introduce yourself, maybe Kim and Daryl, and then let's ⁓ off the show. Kim, tell us a little bit about ⁓ you're up to at the minute.

Kimberly A Richardson: Well, good morning, everyone. And Jim, this is the closest I've been to you because I'm in Fishkill, New York right now where my dad is. I actually grew up in Waffentors Falls, New York. But good morning, everyone. am Dr. Kim. I'm very excited to be here. And right now I am on the cusp of public ed retirement and I will be full time coaching in just a few months and doing this work that I love. So I am in a

Jim Thompson: Yeah.

Kimberly A Richardson: serious transition mode, but still enjoying every day of getting ready to close out our school year with our educators, our teachers, ⁓ coaches and mentors, ⁓ even start to prepare for next year. So that's strange for me because I'm preparing for it, but I won't be there. So I will be in a very reflective space in our conversation today. ⁓ I always love ⁓ being amongst those that enjoy this world of coaching and know the value of it. So good morning again.

Shane Leaning: Good morning, what a privilege. Daryl, welcome too.

Daryl Michel: you. And I'm Dr. Darrell Mickle. ⁓ ⁓ coming to you from San Antonio, Texas. ⁓ Yeah, this is where I am for the minute. I just returned from Australia, working with this ⁓ exciting opportunity to present at a dyslexia there in Perth. Part of our two-year randomized control using student-focused coaching with doctors Pam Snow and Tani Seri at La Trobe University their solar lab. So really exciting that student focus coaching was their chosen model for that RCT. And it was funded by the Australian Education Research Organization. fantastic. Late next week, I'm off to New Zealand to do some work with Carla McNeil and her team at Learning Matters. so it's... It's a joy for me to get to continue to do this work nationally with folks, with people. It's just, it's been such, such a blessing. I get to live in my ⁓ coaching my consulting business called Be a Change, while also maintaining ⁓ part-time work the University of Texas at Austin's, ⁓ the Meadow for Preventing Educational Risk. So, so I get to kind of live in in really good worlds, the academia side and the cult consulting space.

Shane Leaning: Well, what an absolute joy to have you both and Jim, I don't know about you, we are in safe hands today because we have got two doctors in the house should anything go wrong, usually we have something. I'm just, I'm super grateful. And we've got other people joining us as well. ⁓ If you're joining us on LinkedIn, it is really great to have you here. you're joining us on Riverside, welcome as always, please feel free to share your comments, your thoughts, your reflections along the way, and we can bring them into the chat too. Jim.

Daryl Michel: You

Shane Leaning: Tell me what's on your mind.

Jim Thompson: Well, we got more doctors than ER or the vet. I mean, like I'll say, we are in good hands and I mean that sincerely. I just got it, you know, the small world. I met my wife in Poughkeepsie. We got married in Millbrook. I taught in Dutchess County in the seventies. So, you know, I know fish kill in Wappinger Falls, small world. So just said it is, ⁓ isn't. ⁓

Kimberly A Richardson: Small world. Yeah, this is is nice.

Jim Thompson: We're going to start off with a question I stole. just stole it. Grand theft auto from Michael Bungay Shania. I stole it from Mike. love you. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. So please don't bring me to court. this is Michael's newest question is this. What do you believe to be true? And so I'd like to ask both of you, would start with Tim and then Darrell to kind of get us going. With your background and breadth and depth of experience and expertise, do you now believe to be true about the idea and ideal of coaching done well? So Kim, could we start off with you and hear what's on your mind and we'll shift over to Darrell.

Kimberly A Richardson: You know, when I first thought about the question, I had an answer in mind, but you know, as you read and shift and experience, I'm going to answer it in a different way. What I believe to be true now is that coaching done well is all about creating awareness. Awareness so that people can have more information about themselves, about their situation, their environment so that they can move into action. I'm currently working with cooperating teachers at Old Dominion University in Norfolk helping them to ⁓ put tools in their tool belt about helping our future teachers to have some awareness about the industry of education, ⁓ the realities, that whole of a residency or student teaching is about awareness, so is coaching and. some of the communication skills that we can use are really supposed to be about not having that, that best question or that Rolodex of responses. But what can we say, ask or share that will help the other person have more awareness and reveal more about themselves, their teams, their situations, their emotions so that they can move into action. You know, I've always said coaching is that space that we can create with people so that they have the space to think and to learn and to create. And so that is a space of building awareness. And I really believe that to be true right now. ⁓ I've heard it uncovering things, you know, what's what people bring into the coaching space. You know, people will say, I need work life balance, Dr. Kim. And then by the time we start coaching, that's not really what it is. So. That's what I'm going to say to start the conversation.

Jim Thompson: Love it, love it. Dr. Darrell, what's on your mind with that question?

Daryl Michel: Hmm. Yes, it is such a great question. you know, and I, when I think about this, I, what I believe to be true at this time ⁓ know, thinking about coaching of, have to really wonder sometimes what do people really know? the knowledge base, you know, like in schools, how some coaches are, they have a coach title, yet they're really not coaching. ⁓ then you go back and start to think about, ⁓ does a principal or what do people in a central office really understand ⁓ coaching? How ⁓ believe to be true, people come into ⁓ space coaching, knowing what know. You know, if we were to think about that through that, gosh, to the competence model, if you're aware of that from ⁓ in the ⁓ of people are unconsciously unskilled of just, you don't know what you don't know. And I really have to think about that often in terms of the places where I am of, ⁓ of don't necessarily, they don't know what they don't know about, about coaching. And so I believe to be true, people try to do their very best in terms of what they believe coaching should be. And the more they are to open up and learn more, they can then become that consciously unskilled to the consciously skilled to the, ⁓ you getting to that upper unconsciously skilled, you know, coaching is really clear then for people what it can really do and the impact it can have. So. ⁓ That's what I believe to be true right now. No assumptions that people really understand depth of what coaching ⁓ or what it could be. ⁓

Jim Thompson: That's lovely. I appreciate that. And it kind of resonates personally with me. know, Jim Knight's first simple truth is we don't know what it looks like when we do what we do. That's why I think the power of video reflection. But I'm going to ask each of you. I've tailored a question specifically for each of you. There are no trick questions here. They're going to have some fun. Ask each kind of a tailor any question. Then we're going to go to our Shanghai-based interlocutor. Kim, I've been reading some of your wonderful blog posts. just sparkle. And I read one from January and the title just intrigued me. It says, why are all these dead birds on the bridge? And wrote that, ⁓ that asked these questions. What have you been pushing through that your spirit has been warning you don't? And what normal now, but shouldn't? Kim, whoa. is on your mind that you wrote this and especially focusing in on your coaching.

Daryl Michel: Mmm.

Kimberly A Richardson: ⁓ my goodness. So I was driving across the Chesapeake Bay Bridge, which I hadn't done in a long time. And with all of my children, my granddaughter were on our way actually up here. And I just saw all the, the carnage, the dead birds on the bridge. I asked myself, why, why don't they know that if you get too close, you're going to get hit and you're going to get hurt and maybe die. And so I wrote a blog about that because there are things that we do that you have to sense. ⁓ you are getting too close to a dangerous space. Whether that is with your own self-awareness and not managing your emotions or you're getting ready to have a conversation that you're not prepared to have yet. I don't want you to be dead on the bridge because you were not. being cautious, intentionally cautious, and it doesn't mean don't have conversations, but are we ready and are we being aware, and there was my word from earlier, of what's going on so that I can be purposeful and intentional in what my next steps are. And while coaches are our focus, coaches are a very specific type of leader. And my message to leaders is we can't afford to operate out of control the heat of the moment. We have to know that there's intentional thinking and conversations and prep work that needs to happen before I ⁓ things. So that's where that block came from. And was kind of mad because I'm like, these birds shouldn't be dead. They should have known. ⁓ And taking back. If you're watching and you see other people in front of you, try something and it doesn't work.

Daryl Michel: Ha ha ha!

Kimberly A Richardson: what can you do so that that doesn't happen to you? So it's still about awareness. I know that this is not part of this blog, but when Dr. Darrow was talking about the of in the stages, it was making think about the organizational clarity that needs to be present for those coaches to be successful. And if there's no role definition and the administrators don't understand shifts that have to be made with mindset or, you know, support or, you know, what the work is for, you know, the bigger lens of organizational clarity, those boundaries, the unexpected outcomes. It's just not going to work well, and it doesn't mean coaching is not working well. And then coaching gets a bad rap. So I just wanted to squeeze that in there.

Jim Thompson: Well, I appreciate that. was lovely. It was a beautiful blog. And there I'm going to you. know, Darryl, you you do a lot of good stuff like him. You guys both got your Nikes on, you know, and I appreciate that. Darryl, I know that you authored a chapter on student focused coaching and the new book entitled Reading Isn't Optional. Reading Isn't Optional. Darryl, could you take a couple minutes and share some of the highlights from that chapter?

Daryl Michel: Yeah, so was a ⁓ privilege ⁓ be asked by Jeannie Schaaf to contribute a chapter there along some fellow colleagues ⁓ The really on secondary education. And so ⁓ Jeannie, as she reaching out to different individuals, just thinking about how in the middle school and high school space, we often don't do a enough, definitely not like an elementary school literacy. so, so my chapter was specific to focus coaching and the then ⁓ of student coaching into the literacy connections. ⁓ And so comes earlier on in the book. ⁓ And then later have chapters like fluency, comprehension, et cetera. then, ⁓ provides a general overview of student-focused coaching, but then gets into these connections of how, if through ⁓ the problem-solving process, you can get yourself to a place of ⁓ not just, somebody says there's this problem, ⁓ and so immediately jump into action with some strategies. ⁓ It's... we still work our way through to uncover is the problem really the problem? additional data might we collect? How are we going to write a problem definition that a student focus, set a goal, ⁓ then the actions. The though being really specific then to, hey, is problem definition about fluency? Is it about vocabulary? Is it something in writing? ⁓ Because even that space, ⁓ those are really big concepts. And so, so when we think about through coaching in the secondary space with literacy, might get ourselves to a place where we can say, yep, vocabulary is an area that we really need to hone in on. And then as Vivian Robinson talks about from New Zealand and New Zealand scholar, ⁓ think about going narrow and deep, not shallow and wide. And by narrow and deep, we this priority or small number of priorities. that we can then say, hey, this might be our school-wide professional learning community focus. It's going to be all things vocabulary for a period of time. then how we, in small chunks, maybe start with something like language comprehension. Maybe we then move to background knowledge. Maybe, you know, just these little steps. ⁓ where we can give people opportunities, educators, administrators, opportunities to learn more about that specific area of literacy, but we can study it, we can see demonstrations, we can practice it. And then we can, as coaches, coaches in that chapter being as well, that doesn't mean you have to have a title of coach. coach could be a department chair or nurse, fire leader or grade level lead, or ⁓ who's really supporting the. of research and evidence-based instructional practices. And so, if we maybe could do this in these smaller chunks, then give principals and others, ⁓ when you go into class, you have something specific to look for. Don't come in and look at 12 things. Like, look at this one thing that we're trying to really take a deep dive in. ⁓ yeah, so an honor to contribute to that chapter. We got the message yesterday. I mean, it... The book is being shipped, so it is officially on the way and think will be, Jeannie did a great job, ⁓ think in terms of the author selection, I think it will be a very good seller.

Jim Thompson: Beautiful. Well, congrats on that. Let me turn over to my friend in Shanghai, our interlocker. What's on your mind here and all this stuff,

Kimberly A Richardson: Yes.

Shane Leaning: I just have the best job for listening to you doing this. This is just brilliant. as I've been listening, it's interesting, because at home, you'd think we'd planned this, but I think the connections that have come through here, they're definitely not planned, but they've come through to me very clear in that, ⁓ you started with creating awareness, being kind of the you believe to be true and important. And what's interesting is that everything I've heard since just seems to hook onto that from when you talk about Daryl about people trying their best, you don't know what you don't know. then, you know, surely awareness is creating awareness is the way to kind of help people to that to come in, then coming back to your, mean, quite traumatic bridge story. I where is this bridge with the dead birds? This is like, this sounds horrific. Like, is this something that's known over in the US? Like the people know about is this famous like I feel like I'm out the loop here.

Kimberly A Richardson: Shane, you know, I am from Virginia and that's where I typically am. And so we have a lot of bridges and tunnels and bridge tunnels where the bridge turns into a tunnel and you go under the water. So there's always dead seagulls on the bridge and it truly is baffling because they fly and they're just flying, just free as the day. And I'm like, but somebody had to have told the other birds.

Shane Leaning: God.

Kimberly A Richardson: that you shouldn't do that. yes, it's a thing. It's a thing when you are near. ⁓ coastal Virginia, so when you're near the water and you have the seagulls, there will be some.

Shane Leaning: You'd think. You'd think. goodness, I'm glad for that. I'm glad for the warning for the next time I'm visiting. That's intense. But again, like saw that link like of awareness being important, like of generating awareness, like linking it back. And then even to finish there, you talked about that's down like the creating opportunities to learn in those chunks. And again, it's enabling people to be more aware. This is something that I'm just

Kimberly A Richardson: Yeah.

Shane Leaning: really taking and really trying to focus on at the minute in my coaching practices as well as just how not only my coaching clients am I helping cultivate awareness, but in the rest of my professional life, am I making assumptions or directing too much or sometimes is there space in many different ⁓ of ⁓ work and personal life just to create space for ⁓ awareness. Yeah, Jim, I don't know, did that, was resonating with you there?

Jim Thompson: Well, you know, it just taking this in, you know, one of the, we don't get a chance to do this. You know, one of the, our pillars of coaching done well characters is giving a place for the coachee to do their best thinking. And you know, you talk to teacher after teacher and I said, when do you get a chance to reflect? And they go, never. know, ⁓

Kimberly A Richardson: Never.

Jim Thompson: Yeah, tell me, you know what, Jim, you know what I do a lot of? Fleck-ting, fleck-ting, but mostly de-fleck-ting, de-fleck. I'm doing nope-a-dope all day long. If I get a chance to reflect, it's with an adult beverage, but not at school, okay? And this is a chance, and this leads me to kind of ⁓ final kind of thing, and I want to get everybody involved in this kind of, and we're just blessed with this. ⁓

Daryl Michel: Yeah.

Kimberly A Richardson: So true.

Daryl Michel: Yep.

Jim Thompson: My friend and colleague, George Manthee, who directed professional development for the state of California, administrators for years, wrote in Becoming an Evacuative Coach, we are really listening to a person, we are communicating, I hear you, I'm here for you, I believe in you, I'm receiving the gift of your story. ⁓

Daryl Michel: Hmm.

Jim Thompson: and I'm holding it in sacred trust. Well, we've received the grift of your story here, folks. We thank you for it. Let me ask you all, and I'm going to conclude everybody on this, is there a story that you have listened to that gives you energy, cause for celebration, or cause for hope? So whoever wants to start out, but we'd love to hear if you've got a story to share that you've listened to that maybe gives you some energy. for celebration or cause for hope. Who'd like to stop?

Kimberly A Richardson: Ooh, my teeth.

Daryl Michel: Yeah, I've got us. I've got us. Yeah, that's that's it's really good. I'll jump in here this time of, you know, have this opportunity to work with ⁓ Euclid City Schools outside of Cleveland, Ohio. And this in particular, this is the third year of being there with their work. And so we've had work with coaches, then some with principals. And now ⁓ we've to do some of this work with different grade levels. more of we're trying to pilot and test some things. And it's around the coaching within this lesson study concept. So Shane, I hope to be in Shanghai next fall for the World Association of Lesson Study Conference because ⁓ this the kind of work that it is. The lesson study concept with these fourth grade teachers at one of the elementaries ⁓ is where we've had the opportunity to really dive into of these curriculum units that they're expected to teach and how in coaching, the excitement part here for me is an opportunity to get to the voice of the teachers. They're so used to just follow this pacing guide, just get through it, get through it, get through it. And you're like, ⁓ gosh, there must be better ways. ⁓ And with group of teachers, at one school, it's been so rewarding for me to be able to to them, ⁓ knowledge of the curriculum, their ideas for how we can not change things, but ⁓ slow down and go deeper into the content. And to listen to them now, as I've worked with them a couple of times over the year, ⁓ of the excitement on the part of the students. ⁓ Students really taking a more active role, whether it's poetry, it's studying something in geology, whatever it might be. it's, it's almost as though it's by allowing for one to establish this relationship with them, that your voice matters ⁓ and voice as a teacher in front of students every, every day ⁓ matters. that it just has created this space, I think, of a trustworthy me, a trustworthy colleague, engaging them, this whole mutual respect, but they have so much knowledge that is not tapped And so ⁓ that has a phenomenal experience. ⁓ And we've moved into seventh grade reading and we moved into the high school sophomore level English, but it doesn't have to be just literacy and reading classes. but when you get to, I really believe when we get to this place where we're willing to have these deep conversations with those who are in front of our students every single day and really understand the that they're bringing the excitement on the part of students when they make adjustments. just keeps me more in that space. But ⁓ it's opportunities ⁓ to the deep dive and lesson study of the ⁓ study planning and the teaching and reflecting. It just becomes ⁓ continuous.

Jim Thompson: Thank you for that. appreciate that. And Kim, Love to ask you, share us a story that maybe gives you energy or cause for celebration or cause.

Kimberly A Richardson: I was thinking about what I was going to say, so I'm going to try to put it together and make sure that it makes sense. in my current role in public school, I primarily focus on induction and development, all of the teaching and learning and retaining teachers. You know, we know that it has been a very difficult path for teachers and coming into the profession and leaving the profession. And one thing that I heard someone say was, I love teaching. I wish I could be more supported in it. And I'm looking around at this person and in this building where they have all of these people who are there to support the teachers. ⁓ philosophy, my Keep Rising Dr. Kim leadership work is that this is people-centered work, people-centered leadership, regardless of roles. So I will connect that to the fact that I'm supporting a school ⁓ and the school leadership in Illinois. And was conducting some focus groups and talking to teachers. And one that me hope was the conversation I was having with a small group of teachers about the building ⁓ and about what observations were, what they felt. And some of these were into ⁓ complain mode and this and it would be different if we could. But this one teacher, she was like, no, everybody needs to stop. I looked at her and they're all looking at her because she was not very vocal in the midst of the focus group. She said, I've been here for the last 10 years and I know what it was like before this leader. And it is a thousand times better with her here. And so ⁓ it was not a direct,

Daryl Michel: Mmm.

Kimberly A Richardson: coaching situation. What it told me was when we're in difficult work spaces, because this work is hard, teaching and learning and schools and all of what's happening all the noise and ⁓ in the space and I won't get into that. But what can be the difference is a in the of an administrator or a coach. that really lets you know I am here to support you to help make this work happen and not to negate what the work is and it'll be okay and that whole toxic positivity. No, but to get in there to recognize that this is people work, to meet people where they are and it's going to make the experience of a teacher. all the more better just from them being able to feel supported because they know it's hard. They know that they're not going to get this huge check, but to know that they're supported and isn't that the primary role of a coach? And so to bring it all together while we have to push our agendas and our professional development and this has to happen and that lesson plan has to be in and we have to get the scores up, yes. But the teachers are the ones that are doing that work. And if they feel supported, they will be able to do the work and we will all be able to celebrate student achievement. So I hope that answered your question.

Jim Thompson: I love it's first person plural. We, we can do hard work. We, we, I remember a little bit from my latin that helped a lot. Shane, what's on your mind? You have a story you want to share that gives you energy, give you hope as we wind things up here?

Daryl Michel: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Shane Leaning: Yeah, well, I mean, apart from the energy of this conversation, which gives me great hope, it's interesting to hear you, both of you talk about, you know, untapped knowledge, you know, the potential of listening to teachers and, and, creating spaces, ⁓ negating where they are as well where they are. ⁓ know, with ⁓ a little story, for me, that was ⁓ from today where I was at a school, ⁓ very fortunate, I was invited to a school that is going through a difficult transition, know, and a big transition within their school group that affects all the staff. And this school, you know, has been doing a lot to try and support the staffs. But one of the things they did, you know, rather than to negate the challenge that this presents, is they invited me in to do some sessions with the staff where we looked at a few tools to help them through navigating change, you know, like like and not tools to negate their experience, but tools just like, you know, classic circle of influence tools and things. And I thought that gave me great hope that there are schools out there and leaders like you said, who go, do you know what? This is important enough that we need to give you a space to do some really good thinking around this. And it's not about us going, let's just kind of mindfulness over this. Let's try give you a breathing technique to get, no, no, let's allow you to go there and to, and to. and to structure this because we acknowledge that times are tough. I think that's really brave leadership. It's really powerful leadership. that was something that, yeah, ⁓ really ⁓ gave me cause for hope.

Kimberly A Richardson: Yes.

Daryl Michel: Mmm.

Kimberly A Richardson: Mm. Mm-hmm.

Jim Thompson: Well, this is my definition of love. You know, lovely. mean, you one of the things we do and I do in my workshops is within the last couple of months, we go, we form a circle and then we share one thing, one takeaway or one thought that's going to stick with us when we leave. And so if I could ⁓ everybody here, I'm gonna put you on a spot. I know, but could you share? one thought, one takeaway from our conversation together that gave you energy or something that you're going to take with you. And, could I start out with you since you are in New York state or both in the same state, I'm in a state of confusion some days, but no, go there. Would you share one thought, one takeaway from our conversation today?

Kimberly A Richardson: Absolutely. You know, I think we all could agree. We know that coaching is learning and learning is in the work that we're doing, the student learning, the teacher learning. ⁓ But also this is human work is what I'm hearing from all of us. You know, we have a task, we're in the business of education, but this is human work. And ⁓ we're to have the skills the competencies to balance those two sides of the work, that's when we can really make a difference, I feel. And I think that there are a lot of people that recognize this now, but I'm hoping for even greater awareness in that fact that we can't just have our to-do agenda and go about checking off the boxes, but this is human work, whatever area it is. And... That means that we have to, as humans doing human work, be aware of the humanity that I bring as well. And I come flawed and I come, you know, with my lens and I come with my experiences and I have to honor that that is not the path that someone else took to get where they are. And then we'll be able to come together, build relationship and rapport and get the work done.

Jim Thompson: Thank you so much. Darryl, would you share a thought? Take it away.

Daryl Michel: Yeah, apologies for the background noise. I dropped a couple of things in chat and these come from Aero's, the Australian Education Research Organization, some preliminary findings on this two-year randomized control trial study. ⁓ And I it fits really well with today's conversation. And that is that one, ⁓ leadership is the primary enabler or the constant. So when we think about this in terms of how important it is ⁓ get our, not a principal, but people in the other positions at a district office, a central office to really understand that that's their space. You either are going to enable this work continue to move forward and coaching to be effective and building capacity in a lot of people to sustain work, or you're not. You're gonna keep adding stuff on that ⁓ coaching just becomes Or the second part that I thought was really as one of these preliminary findings is that it's not a uniform treatment. So when you think about every, every single experience of a coach, who you work with in what context, and I think that fits very well here. Our awareness of the different individuals who we're working with, whether it's one teacher, a group of teachers, a principal, someone else is We have to be really consciously aware of the moves that we make, not making assumptions. a lot to really unpack and to understand and that really ⁓ some of the relational and the trust. Building these relationships.

Kimberly A Richardson: Yeah, see it.

Jim Thompson: Thank you, boy, profound. Shane, some final thoughts for you?

Shane Leaning: Well, I'm just grateful there's so much to, yet again, another brilliant episode where there's so much to unpack. And the last episode that you three did together was so good. And I remember listening back to it, feeling intensely jealous to be there. But I also know that I'm going to be listening back to this episode again, because I know there's just so many things that I just need to go back and write my notes. I've been scribbling my page full of notes here anyway. But grateful that I get to. Listen back and to those who are tuning in live, it's really great to have you here joining us. But also there's many people who join in on Spotify or Apple podcasts and come in and join in afterwards. In which case, you know, I hope you found this a super useful chat. certainly have. Jim, any final reflections from you?

Jim Thompson: Well, you know, this is book growth coaching. They talk about one of our, one of the things we ought to be looking at in our conversations is help nurture and still people are coaches to be customers for change, for change. boy, Kim and Darrell ⁓ the expert level of it. Folks, if you're looking for great people to work with, great people to help have you help kids.

Kimberly A Richardson: Yes.

Daryl Michel: Thank

Jim Thompson: and help really make a difference. And check out Kim and Darrell, check out their websites, contact them. They're good people. They're good people. And their hearts in the right place. So, and we're just privileged to have you with us today. And I know we're going to have you next year. be deja vu all over again. We cannot renegotiate your contract. have a little bit of the arrow, would you do some of that Bitcoin stuff? Can't do it, man. Can't do it. But if I see either one of you, I'll give you a slice of two toppings out of it. A heartfelt thanks, really.

Daryl Michel: Thank

Kimberly A Richardson: Thank you, Jim. You're a

Daryl Michel: Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, thank you both very much.

Shane Leaning: Ha ha.

Kimberly A Richardson: That's a great way to start the morning. ⁓ if I could do that every morning, that would be incredible. I need the daily version, the daily version, please.

Shane Leaning: Yes.

Daryl Michel: Mm-hmm.

Shane Leaning: This is, know.

Daryl Michel: Yeah.

Shane Leaning: We all need a daily dose of Jim Thompson, don't we? mean, wouldn't that be the cure for so many ills in the world?

Daryl Michel: Mm-hmm.

Kimberly A Richardson: Goodness. Absolutely.

Daryl Michel: Especially when the fireworks when the fireworks go really excited here Jim

Kimberly A Richardson: ⁓

Shane Leaning: Go on, give us some jazz hands Jim. Kim, Daryl, Jim, it's been an absolute, absolute pleasure. Thank you so much for spending this time and sharing this space with us today. It's been such an honour and I look forward to chatting again very soon. ⁓

Kimberly A Richardson: Have a good day.

Daryl Michel: Very good. Thank you.

Jim Thompson: Okay.

Shane Leaning: Take care everyone, bye bye.